Homosexuality has been declared legal in India last week by the Court and this was celebrated throughout by the gay community. The reaction in the society was mixed. According to many, gays have the right to come out of the closet and express themselves freely whereas, according to the more conservatives, this shouldn’t have been allowed. The concept is still looked upon with hatred. The west had given recognition long time back but here in our country the fight came to an end recently…… as the saying goes “Better late than Never”.
I, personally feel it’s an individual’s choice, one shouldn’t be judgemental about it. But then, come to think of it ….. as someone in your family, it would be difficult to accept/digest the fact.
I invite all you readers to put in your suggestions, opinions, experiences on this. What is your take on this subject!!!
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27 comments:
the concept and practice was already there in the literature of ancinet india..batsayan...etc....so it is nothing new in India...but the hypocracy in the mind of general public lead us to ammend the section 377....hope india will grow
I VEHEMENTLY OPPOSE THE CONCEPT OF GAY..AS I FEEL IT'S QUITE UNNATURAL.AND IS SAID THAT SEX WITH SAME SEX MAY LEAD TO HIV AND AIDS IN OUR SOCIETY.HENCE AM NOT WITH GAYISM..THEY HAVE FULL RIGHT TO BE IN SOCIETY..BUT THEY DONT HAVE THE RIGHT TO POLLUTE IT.
to each his own........
'love' is the most beautiful feeling between two people......and thats what everyone is looking for.....then how can anyone be punished for loving someone.....for caring for someone....for trusting someone.....for being with someone......
Get a life........and live and let live......there are better and more important issues to be discussed.....feed the millions of hungry people in our country.....spread education........develop as a country and just dont cling on to obsolete laws........
do better things than stopping two people from loving each other.......
I agree with both Anuradha and Rhiju. On a personal level, it's totally unacceptable to be judgmental about people's personal lives/choices. On a political level (not that the political is disconnected from the personal), we cannot deny basic civil rights to fellow human beings. And speaking of "tradition", as Rhiju says, there is ample evidence in canonical ancient Indian texts of the existence AND tolerance of sexualities outside of the heterosexual binary. So homosexuality, far from being a "corrupting Western influence", was something that was vilified and repressed by colonialism. As for abnormality, homosexuality was cleared of those imputations decades back. So we should welcome this new development-- although I wonder how long it will take to become a part of the cultural fabric of present-day India.
I have a totally different view on this subject...
what i am feeling after seeing all the girls cheering the bill...is....
A few days ago i read in newspaper that sperms can be generated in testube now...with such invention ....will this law liberate the oppressive women in india?...will there be a gradual decline of a heterosexual relationship and a male female sharing family instituution?..the women ..normal women...can opt in future for such options where they are not dominated by men ...restricted....less gender bias...and perhaps a freedom from dowry and other opressive practices that place Indian women at the mercy of the men.As biologicaly and psychologically it has been proved that it is not a disease that can be cured..it is just personal preference. a habit that people get into..will we see more and more joining the groups specially the women. IS THAT THE REASON THE WOMEN ARE FAVOURING THE MOTION WHILE THE MEN ARE OBJECTINABLE?
hehe...watch out ...we r yet to see the revolution......
Interesting take, Ruma. I wasn't aware of the gender bias in the context of supporting the bill. Do you mean here in Manashi's blog or in general?
In general men seem to be more intolerant of homosexuality because 1) the ideal of masculinity and machismo is nearly always associated with the heterosexual man 2) lesbianism challenges/subverts the gender hierarchy and power politics implicit in heterosexual institutions such as marriage.
It might take some time to get to the utopic vision that you've suggested, but this development will definitely result in more women (and men) coming out of closets and claiming the visibility that they always deserved to have.
Homosexuality has been legalised in India, but how far the Indian society will acknowledge it, still remains an unanswered question...i personally donot support homosexuality nor would i want anybody from my near ones to be one among them but i also agree very much with Anuradha that love between two persons should not be punished as it is the best thing to happen....until and unless it has some negative impacts on the society, we cannot be so much judgemental about other people's personal lives.... time has come when we need to grow....
hi sucheta
well no i meant in general...dunno how utopic is my idea...but it seems quite possible. this view was presented in a movie called "Fire" long back..the vision that the director had was ahead of its time...but as we see movies are the mirror of life...guess the NRI director had seen this revolutinery tendencies abraod as we are aware that it was in europe that the movement had started to liberate women first.the movie was hugely critisised.. in india....AS USUAL. i remeber somewhere during my studies i read that the hypothalamus reacts in different manner in homosexuals than it is in heteroseuals.the reserch is still on regarding testoteron and projesteron imbalances. but if it is so then how do we justify bisexuals? I would like to know...if u can throw some lights on the subject please.
Thanks everybody for participating ... In this context, I get the feeling, from what Sucheta di and Ruma di has written, that homosexuality per say is more inclined to lesbianism, liberation of women from male dominance ... does it arise from societal pressure or is it genetic? If it is about liberating women, then what do you have to say about the gays???
Hi Ruma,
I actually meant "utopic" in a good way :) Who had thought that IPC 377 would change some day? So your vision is quiet plausible...it may just be a matter of time. In "Fire", however, the outcome is ambiguous. Would the women have outed themselves had they not been spied on by the servant and the husband? Once they're found out they make a clean(?) break with the domestic space, of course-- but somehow the end is more complicated than the "living-happily-ever-after" vibe that you get from heterosexual couples who go against the world. So legal change will have to go hand-in-hand with change in cultural perception, which is likely to be a lot slower (as Reeti points out in her post). But this is certainly a huge step.
I don't have detailed information on the biology of homosexuality-- what I do is mostly cultural/literary studies. Found an article that might interest you-- it makes some interesting connections between the biological basis and the cultural perception of homosexuality. Here's the link: http://www.narth.com/docs/bioresearch.html
Manashi, I agree with you-- making homosexuality visible/acceptable is not merely about women's rights. It's about HUMAN rights, about the rights of an individual to be herself/himself without confirming to societal stereotypes. But you'd agree that coming out has been an especially fraught experience for lesbians in India. Gays have an underground subculture that lesbians lack. I hope all that changes with time.
I apologize for this really long post-- don't mean to take the blog over :)
Manashi...I want to clarify one thing...when I said the movement started in Europe first...i didnt meant lesbian movement but general liberation of women from male dominance...
1. There r 3 broad categories
a)Heterosexual(inspired by social conditioning)
b) Homosexual(biological?psychological?preference?)
c) Bisexual( well...ye dil mange more)
The gays and lesbians fall under the homo category and in short when we say gay movement it includes the lesbos as well..
2. This movement is to legalise gay rights as minority community ...but what sucheta has pointed out as utopian idea is an after effect, rather "Pyar ka side effect" that we are talking about.As I mentioned earlier that this theory was obliquely implied in the movie "Fire " by Deepa Meheta who is known for choosing bold subjects for her movies.
Do we agree that women who are financially independent are opting for single motherhood? Can u name some? What if this concept catch on with the masses as it did with many celebs specially when indian women are going through a transition?How abt two mothers ...more sharing...less ominance??? Will u still call utopian? Yesterdays utopic theory is todyas reality in the form of gay bill......
the vision that these creative people have are way ahead of general publics narrow views...
Hope the suprime court authority had enough vision when they passed the bill...like so many times before we have seen the side effetcs of passing bills without sparing thoughts... should i name some of the bills that have seen some grotesque effetcs?????
Homo sex is a common phenomenon ...has its presence even in greek mythology....Oscar wild was homo sexual for which he was condemend....when we say what motivates men to have this tendencies ...I think the society was very close all over the world in victorian period and before that ...perhaps its non availabilty of women that made homo practices more common when we talk about gays...in charches the lesbo practices are common phenomenon among nuns....NO OFFENCE...perhaps as time passed and women lernt to express themselves the lesbians came out in the open which perhaps already existed.
once they get into the habit they stick to it as heterosexual relationship and the psychological involment therein are more complex.
one more question arises why it is limied to upper class people rather than the lower strata of the society ...why an autowala never feel homo urges? As many religious gurus are pointing out that it is more to do with "BHOG" than biological...so what if women use it or rather misuse it...?
It is deffinitely not genetic but more of preference ...otherwise how we justify bisexuals?
After reading all my friends commnet i have come to the conclusion that we are all ready to welcome the concept with our open arms as long as it is with others...but if it involves our own relatives ...then i wud oppose vehmently ..??????????????????????????????
I personally would be more than supportive if anyone close to me/related to me decides to be himself/herself by coming out.
Auto-wallahs do not have homosexual urges??!! On the contrary, the gay subculture of India is a great equalizer of classes. For an insight into the world of the working-class Indian homosexual, read R.Raj Rao's novel "The Boyfriend". You'll find a whole vernacular vocabulary of same-sex desire in there--shared by the working classes AND the upper middle classes!
I have read all the comments.I just want to say to those who support homosexuality..It is quite true that we should not stop someone from loving each other..but when this way of loving is affecting our society then there is a problem.Somebody said that there r lots of other things to do ..rather than stopping someone from loving each other.My view for those girls who r not married yet nad support homosexuality.If u realise after ur marriage that ur hubby is a gay..well honestly can u still support ur husband and tell the people of this world that my husband is a gay..I am proud of it..and I dont have any right to stop him from loving another man.Can that lady shouts and say that "love is the most beautiful feeling between two people" and I love my husband making love with another man.This is not a healthy relationship..according to me.and people those who r in favour of gayism..I bet if this happens in their life they will be the first oneto oppose this.As I still believe this is not a healthy relationship.
well well well ......... the discussion is heating up :) .... I would like to share something funny that a friend of mine said with you all, and there is no intention of hurting anybody, just to lighten things up .... What if a homosexual is locked up in a room with a person of opposite sex and a straight blue film!!!! hehehe ....
here again i would like to state that this lady knows somebody who was a homosexual but after an accident, when he was hospitalised, fell in love with a nurse, married her and living a straight life.
thanks..i will do that ...I watched another movie by out of work artists called "girlfriend" ...my enthusiasm was splashed with cold water when the leading lady of the movie confessd"I will vomit if i do another such kind"....COMMON PEOPLE like me kept scratching BEARD....THANK GOD I DON HAVE ONE!!!!
I have an indian friend in australia who has a bisexual girlfriend...often seen him going through the trauma...its true once these people get the right to live thire life as they wish ..such cases as sushruta points out are less likely to happen....
what i pointed out are some of the questions and after effect that came to my mind...i am too confused to be judgemental at this point and hence would stay neutral....
There is nothing to cheer about passing of the bill as it still remains a failure because of all ifs and buts that we are discussing...and ten comments do present the statistics of 100 and 1000 people who wudnt open theIR mouth
"we need to grow...."
"we need to stop being hypocrite ..."
WILL WE HAVE EQUALLY GENEROUS VIEWS WHEN MY SON OPTS FOR A BOYFRIEND AND UR DAUGHTER OPTS FOR A GIRLFRIEND?
OR THEN OUR GENEROSITY BECOMES CONDITIONAL...SCATTERED WITH "IFS" AND BUTS"???
perhaps till that date i would not be motivated enough to read the book "Boyfriend" and u would dispose off the movie "Girlfriend" as trash.
A BILL CAN NOT MAKE THE NATION GROW...one has to generate awareness...
Where sex education is considered offesive ...what measures can be taken to talk about the taboos? Manas views on rehabilitating of a homosexual is quite interesting but who will bell the
cat? PERHAPS SUPREME COURT SHOULD PASS ANOTHER BILL TO GIVE US THE RIGHT TO PUT THE BELLS....WINK
MY QUEST TO KNOW "WHAT MAKES A PERSON HOMOSEXUAL?"... REMAINED UNANSWERED....THE DOCS ARE YET TO REACH A CONCLUSION...EVERY OTHER DAY WE READ IN NEWSPAPERS... CLAIMING TO HAVE FOUND THE REASONS BUT THEY ARE REPEATATIVE....
ALL OUR DISCUSSIONS FALL FLAT ON THE FACE..WHEN WE DON EVEN CLEARLY UNDERSTAND WHAT MOTIVATES HOMOSEXUALITY...
WHAT CONSEQUENCES IT CAN HAVE....ARE WE AWARE OF THE REPERCUSSIONS?
ARE WE READY TO FACE IF IT HAPPENS WITH OUR CHILDREN...
CAN ANYONE STOP ME IF I SAY YES NOW AND THEN NO AFTER 10 YERAS FROM NOW?????
IF WE ACCPET AND APPEAR GENEROUS WE R LESS HYPOCRITE? WHAT ABOUT WE ACCPET AND THEN WE TURN COATS?
You're right, Manashi. A lot of excitement in here ;)
Sushruto, you're certainly entitled to your opinion (as we all are)on homosexuality. However, homosexuality was cleared of the aspersions of "abnormality" back in the 1970s. Too bad most of us in India did not catch on.
And the scenario you have suggested-- the husband turning out to be gay-- it's the DECEPTION in the situation that is offensive, not the fact of homosexuality per se. Do you think the wife would have been any less disappointed/enraged/frustrated if the husband would have been involved with another woman?
Homosexuals need not be "rehabilitated". It is not a disability (whatever the "cause" might be, which is still under debate). They deserve their space, visibility and respect.
oooops...thats TURNCOURT AND NOT turn coats...
By rehabilitation i didnt mean getting hormone injections tied up to the bed posts in some camp.it is with love and respect that some of them can learn to live a life of heteriosexuals..as mana depicted in her story.But then the girl would not be spared by the society...as dowry bill didnt help ...this too will not bring much change unless....
DO U THINK IT IS THE ULTIMATE TOOL TO CONTROL INDIA'S POPULATION PROBLEMS?BINGO!!!!
let me share this wid u...
I tried to get the book from a public library here...
i INNOCENTLY asked the librarian ..."DO U HAVE BOYFRIEND?"
he smiled at me mischiviously ...
i corrected myself...named the author....I faked a very studious expression
though he seemed to go through the list of books that he had...
HE LOOKED POSITIVELY AMUSED....
and i grew UNCOMFORTABLE....
I took out my specs to look scholarly...
the clock ticked on ....
I was hell bent to prove him wrong and was sderiously considering to ask for a book on gay culture...
I EVEN WONDERED IF HE THOUGHT ME ONE OF THEM....IT MATTERED TO ME ...SO MUCH...WHAT DOES A STRANGER THINK ABOUT ME?...SPECIALLY IN THIS CHANGING SCENARIO....(TYPICAL INDIAN THAT I AM)
at last he turned to face me and said " NO MAM I DON HAVE BOYFRIEND"
I wished i had borrowed Mr. india's watch!!!!!
ITS NOT EASY TO SUPPORT A CAUSE IN INDIA!!!
THIS COMMENT IS FROM MY FRIEND KAASHISH..THIS IS WHAT SHE FEELS...
As a student of social science I have faced this particular issue so many times.In this context I have got positive reactions as well as negative reactions.But regarding this issue my view is very strict and negative.I must say homosexuality is a big curse in our society.The very notion of lesbianism and gayism are continuosly destroying our social harmony.As a social being we have some duties towards our society.In this regard I can pull an example of great thinker Plato’s Republic.In Republic we find that a boy and a girl, while they meet for sexual activity,their main purpose is to produce child.That means always sex should not be done for the sake of sex only.Sex or conjugal life also helps us to continue the process of generation,through which social chain and harmony is being developed. And Plato also mentioned that it is our primary duty towards society. Whereas I feel gays and lesbians do sex for having fun or physical pleasure only.Gays and lesbians claim that they are also the part of this same society. But my question is as part of this society what are their contribution towards society?Nothing.According to me their activity only brings chaos and perversion in the society.They are completly going against nature. It is nothing but a social crime.Then how can gayism and lesbianism
be legalized?
Haha...that was a funny anecdote, Ruma! Good luck with finding that book. And guess what, it's being taught here in the American universities. Raj Rao is a professor in the University of Pune and also a gay rights activist.
So rehabilitation means forcing gays and lesbians into compulsory heterosexuality with "love" and "respect"? In order to avoid the dowry problem? I must admit I'm a little lost here.
Sushruto, thanks for sharing your friend's views. So reproduction is an individual's responsibility to the society? What do you say of heterosexual couples who choose to remain childless (many do)? Are they destroying social harmony too, and should they be penalized for that? Is adding to the population the ONLY way of meaningfully contributing to the society?
Hmmmmmmmm Lots of people giving lots of points. for and against. It itself proves how controversial this issue can be..... and the controversial things better be kept under carpet rather than legalising it and let it fly open..... In one sentence we are not setting up good examples. Its good that society becoming liberating and accepting such relations but legalising it means many people who were trying these things as sexual innovation will also feel free to indulge in such activities which is surely not a good sign for the society. I am not saying homosexuality or lesbo is good or bad.... rather it wud be a sexual orientation one is born with..... So i obviously am not in favor of neglecting or insulting them for this but for surely this behaviour is not normal and so it should be cured if possible and if treatment not possible then let it be
under the carpets rather than to come out of the closet..... I would just a example what law changes..... before TADA also police and army wud have so many options to put a terrorist in jail nad many police officials have done it but aftr TADA many wroong people got inside the jail..... So to conclude I am ready to see two gays booking a room together for sex..... I am ready to share drinks or dinner with them as i do with a guy or a girl but hey I am not ready to see they getting married openly and have child through new kind of surgeries now a days..... I am not ready to see them walking hand in hand and kissing on the bus stand and many other things.... Legalising homosexuality gives them these options.... So let them do whatever they want to do inside the closet...... dont let it out in open.... I am also open to an extent of rejecting their sex offers politely if it comes to me instead of crying foul and shouting on them but please dont be it legalised.... One can ignore bad habbits or things but it becomes very tough to ignore if it becomes part and parcel of life and obvious everywhere.........
sucheta ...u r lost because u failed to interpret the context on which i said this.Let me rephrase for u..
raj rao can be an activist and a grt writer but here in the libraries in indore they r not equipped with sudden interest in gayism...
secondly how come u connected dowry bill with gayismn??????
madam...i said dowry bill didnt help much in india as it is still under practise..
SIMILARLY GAY BILLS WONT HELP UNLESS WE DEVELOP AWARENESS...(HOPE U R NOT LOST AND FOUND URSELF THIS TIME)...
REHABILITAION MEANS ALWAYS SETTING UP CAMPS ?....I SHUD THROW AWAY MY DICTIONARY....
AS U DON LIVE IN INDIA SHUD I PRESUME U HAVE NO ACCESS TO INDIAN NEWS CHANNELS ? ...CAUSE IF U HAD...U WUDNT HAVE MISSED A DEBATE CALLED BIG FIGHT..HOSTED BY BARKHA DUTT...IN WHICH A GAY MAN SAID (LOUDLY ENUFF)..."AS SOME PEOPLE ARE BORN LEFT HANDED(AS WE CALL THEM) THEY PREFER TO DO WORK WITH LEFT HANDS..BUT THEY CAN BE TRAINED TO USE THEIR RIGHT HANDS AS WELL ...SIMILARLY GAY PEOPLE CAN BE TRAINED THOUGH THEY WUD ALWAYS PREFER BEING A GAY...(REF: MANASHIS STORY)
WHEN DID I SAY TO GET RID OF DOWRY WE SHUD ALL BE LESBOS...HAHA..U HAVE SENSE OF HUMOR
well a certain mr. has commented that if after marriage a lady finds out that her husband is gay then she'll be distraught.......but if she would find out that her husband is having an affair with another lady then also she would be equally distraught i think and both would ultimately lead to divorce...........!
Besides i think he guys of our country are getting superworried that already the ratio of females to males is already low....and if further they start getting into realtionships with each other then it'll become a very worrisome situation for the men of our country:P........
well..........jokes apart i still think india has loads of other problems to deal with and instead of debating this concept lets just formulate ways to feed the hungry starving children of our country........to each his own!
I must say this for anu.
A debate is a debate and there should and can be a debate on any issue which directly affects us and our society.
If you dont want to be part of this issue and if you think its not gonna affect you then stay out of it. If you r interested to know the pros and cons of the issue be a part. Its so simple
Feeding the hungry and starved children is surely an issue we all should work for but then this issue of homosexuality is not a lesser issue.
and better not to be said about how men are getting affected or not by the ever decreasing ratio of female vs male in this public opinion. All i can say is there are so many other ways.... I stop dead right here
Mr.Abhishek.......
the way you are speaking to a lady just proves your lack of courtesy.Anyway,I am not sitting over here to correct your personality flaws and secondly you are nobody to tell me where i should be and where i should not.I would not like to disturb the environment of this post.......but get a reality check.Life is not about posting comments on blogs.What difference did you make in the scene of homosexuality?forget hunger and starving children.......besides.......the heading of this post itself says...."Homosexuality-Legalised in India".....means whatever had to be done is already done....IT IS LEGALISED!so move on.........and accept it....its legal now
We individuals are nobody to decide or to comment on others feelings… love is eternal. So I think better not to discuss these issues . They are also democratic in nature … let us give them some space to breath .
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